Episode 62 - Chasing FKTs with Ben Nephew

photo: Joe Azze

Without much happening on the racing front over the past several months, many athletes have been venturing in to the world of chasing “Fastest Known Times”—that is, identifying a route and trying to complete it faster than anyone ever has. Legendary trail runner Ben Nephew has been putting up FKTs all over the northeast for years, including classic New England routes like the Presidential Traverse and the Pemigewasset Loop. At the time of our recording a few weeks ago, Ben had more registered FKTs than anyone else (he has since been surpassed by Jason Hardrath). Ben joined the show to talk about the attraction of FKTs, some of his favorite routes, some he’d like to try, and what he thinks the future holds for the scene.

Links
FastestKnownTime.com
Ben’s routes

Desert Island Picks: Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky, The Unforgettable Fire by U2, Michael David Petite Petit

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 61 - #Eracism with Yassine Diboun

In the midst of the ongoing protests against police brutality and systemic inequality, the great Yassine Diboun stops into the Pain Cave to discuss his experience as a minority athlete in an overwhelmingly white majority sport. One of the most accomplished ultrarunners in the US, Yassine brings us his unique perspective on growing up as the target of racism, how that contributed to his struggles with addiction, barriers to minority participation in trail running, and what we can do to help build a more tolerant and equitable community.

Links
Yassine’s recent article in Trail Runner magazine
Wy’east Wolfpack and youth trail running camp
If you’d like to donate to help sponsor a scholarship for a camper, contact here

Desert Island Picks: The Big Book, Live From Mars by Ben Harper and the Innocent Criminals, Brew Dr. Kombucha Circulatory Blend

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 60 - Sports in the Time of Coronavirus with Dr. Keith Strudler

The pandemic has altered our lives in myriad ways—as runners, as sports fans, and obviously just in our daily interactions. To sort this all out, I was very happy to be joined by my good friend and fellow Cornell XC/track alumnus, elite triathlete Dr. Keith Strudler, the director of the School of Communication and Media at Montclair State University. We discussed how COVID-19 will change sports media, the long-term impact on the collegiate sports landscape—particularly for XC and track programs, youth sports, virtual races, what he’s been missing most during the pandemic, and much more.

Links:
Keith at Montclair State
Keith’s hilarious new podcast, Sportish
The Voice of Sport on WAMC

Desert Island Picks: DQ Heath Bar Blizzard, Three Imaginary Boys by the Cure, March of the Penguins by Luc Jacquet, Zima

This episode sponsored by Ladder Sport, thanks for their support

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 59 - Radio and Running with Jimmy Buff

If you’re in the music business—or you’ve listened to the radio in the Hudson Valley or New York City in the past thirty years—you probably know the name Jimmy Buff. But you may not know that in addition to being a longtime DJ, producer, and program director, “Buff” is also an accomplished ultrarunner and triathlete. He and I sat down for a fascinating look back at his career in radio and sport. We talked about how he got his start at the legendary WNEW-FM in NYC, counter-programming Howard Stern, the importance and challenges of independent commercial and community radio, politics, the connection between addiction and endurance sports, and much more.

Links:
Radio Kingston

Desert Island Picks: A Soldier of the Great War by Mark Helprin; Blood on the Tracks by Bob Dylan

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 58 - TV, Music, and (Show)running with Andy Greenwald

photo: Laila Archuleta

Continuing our quarantine-friendly series of running guests who are famous for things other than running, I was ecstatic to welcome Andy Greenwald into the Pain Cave this week. Andy got his start as a music critic for Spin magazine in the late 1990s, then became both a respected TV critic and a writer on TV shows such as Legion and Cat’s Cradle in the 2010s. Now he has won acclaim as the creator and showrunner of Briarpatch, his ten-episode adaptation of a classic noir thriller. I was thrilled to have Andy on the show to talk about podcasting, interviewing, running a TV show, and his newfound love of running.

Links:
Briarpatch on USA
Andy and Chris’ podcast, The Watch
Andy’s books: Nothing Feels Good and Miss Misery

Desert Island Picks: Tusk by Fleetwood Mac; Chinaman’s Chance by Ross Thomas, Dance Dance Dance by Haruki Murakami, Bordersnakes by James Crumlee; Herr’s Sour Cream and Onion potato chips; Trumer Pilsner

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 57 - Mens' Ultrarunning Fantasy Draft with Phil Vondra and Rich Heffron

Despite Phil’s abominable behavior during our womens’ draft (for which he was roundly criticized in the media and penalized by the voters), he was invited back, along with GFOP Rich Heffron, to select our mens’ ultrarunning fantasy teams. And this time, the Legend did not disappoint! Take a listen and let us know who had the best performance in this year’s fantasy draft.

Beers for this episode: Ithaca Every Day Haze and Flower Power; Equilibrium Wavelength, Energy Equals, and Super Fractal Julia Set

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 56 - The Best Running Books with Joe Puleo (Part II)

Quarantine content continues! Now that you’ve had enough time to plow through our favorite running movies, you should have plenty of time to tackle the reading list we’re about to assign you. I’m joined by my great friend, coach and author Joe Puleo, possibly the most well-read person I’ve ever met, to go through our favorite books about running. In Part II, we cover our favorite biographies, memoirs, science/training books, and running fiction.

Links
Part I - narrative non-fiction books
Joe’s first appearance on the show
Joe’s book, Running Anatomy (blurbed by yours truly!)
Hear Joe’s presentation at an upcoming virtual NSCA conference

Episode 55 - The Best Running Books with Joe Puleo (Part I)

Quarantine content continues! Now that you’ve had enough time to plow through our favorite running movies, you should have plenty of time to tackle the reading list we’re about to assign you. I’m joined by my great friend, coach and author Joe Puleo, possibly the most well-read person I’ve ever met, to go through our favorite books about running. In Part I, we tackle our favorite category: narrative non-fiction running books.

Links
Joe’s first appearance on the show
Joe’s book, Running Anatomy (blurbed by yours truly!)
Hear Joe’s presentation at an upcoming virtual NSCA conference

Episode 54 - Women's Ultrarunning Fantasy Draft with Phil Vondra and Laura Kline

The cure for your quarantine blues! No, races aren’t happening right now, but that’s not gonna stop us from bringing the concept of fantasy sports to the world of ultrarunning. I’m joined by the legendary Phil Vondra and the great Laura Kline to draft our women’s ultrarunning fantasy teams—one runner in each of twelve different events. Let the hilarity (and the outrage) ensue! Take a listen and let us know who you think has the best team. The winner gets beer, so it’s important!

Beer for this episode: Equilibrium/Civil Society Sweep the Leg; Founders Rubaeus; Battery Steele Flume

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 53 - Podcasting, Running, and NBA Crossovers with JE Skeets

There’s not a ton of news going on in sports these days, and the trail and ultrarunning world is no exception. And I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to turn this podcast into a stream of stories about how we’re all dealing with isolation. Instead, we’re going to try to branch out a little bit; one avenue I wanted to explore was interviewing some runners who are better known for things other than running. And I was absolutely ecstatic to kick off this series by snagging one of my favorite podcasters to come on the show and talk a little shop. JE Skeets is the co-host of No Dunks, a daily NBA podcast on The Athletic. This is the third iteration of the show that he and his friends Tas Melas, Jason Doyle, Trey Kerby, and Leigh Ellis, have had since the Podcasting Stone Age in 2005. Prior to this year, they produced a daily show on NBA TV called The Starters. I sat down with Skeets to talk about being one of the pioneers of podcasting, his background in high school hoops, his newfound love for running, which NBA players would make good marathoners, and more.

Links:
No Dunks podcast
Skeets on IG (and the pod)

Desert Island Picks: Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace, A-Sides Win by Sloan, Wrecking Bar Brewpub Beer Flavored Vienna Lager

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 52 - Ten Best Running Movies with Phil Vondra

The Legend is back!! From a socially appropriate distance of course. As it’s been about six weeks since our last episode, we started with an abbreviated version of This Month in Ultrarunning, recapping results from the (hopefully temporary) end of the ultra season—including the Olympic Trials marathon, the Caumsett 50K, the Pioneer Spirit 50 mile, and Transgrancanaria—as well as recapping the Quarantine Virtual Backyard Ultra and some FKT news. Then it’s time for our top ten running movies of all time (40:30)!

Huge thanks to Podcorn for sponsoring this episode. Explore sponsorship opportunities and start monetizing your podcast by signing up here: https://podcorn.com/podcasters/

Beer for this episode: Equilibrium Fluctuation, Alchemist Focal Banger

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 51 - This Month in Ultrarunning with Phil Vondra

The 2020 ultrarunning season is in full swing, and we’re back after a two-month hiatus to bring you all the news that’s fit to discuss, and also a bunch that probably isn’t. The Legend and I start off by discussing the surprising cancellation of the North Face Endurance Challenge series (4:00) and the Sage/Koop Twitter beef (16:00) before our whirlwind tour of results from around the globe in the first two months of the year (26:00), including the early-season Golden Ticket races, the US road 100 mile championships, Tarawara, the Spine, and much more. (Unfortunately at one point I mistakenly imply that Drew Holman is from the East Coast. Not sure what that’s about.)

Beer for this episode: Other Half/Equilibrium Lab Daydream, Start Line Brewing Hop Load

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 50 - Reforming the Western States Lottery with Joe Uhan

Joe Uhan has been a mainstay of the West Coast ultra world since he burst onto the scene with competitive finishes at Chuckanut and the AR50 in 2011. Since then, he’s gone on to record top 10s at Western States, Lake Sonoma, Bandera, Waldo, and many other elite races. A well-respected coach and physical therapist, Joe has been involved with the Western States 100 ever since he first paced the race over a decade ago, as an athlete, volunteer, and therapist. Now as a coach, he has seen his athletes struggle with the frustration of the WS lottery—and he thinks he has a solution. In this episode, we talk about how Joe came to be involved with Western States, the formation of the current iteration of the WS lottery, the problems of the compounding ticket system, “premature” and “stale” lottery entrants, “lottery fatigue” and second-order effects, and how moving to a multi-tiered, non-compounding lottery could fix these issues.

Links:
The Olive Oil Joe origin story
The legend of Olive Oil Joe
Uhan Performance
Joe’s blog posts that formed the basis of this episode: Part I, Part II, and Part III

Desert Island Picks: Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Achtung Baby by U2, Ninkasi Spring Reign

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 49 - Debating the Mens' UROY with Phil Vondra and Rich Heffron

Since we ran incredibly long, we had to split up our UROY debate into two episodes. Here’s our mens’ discussion of UROY and POY.

Beer for this episode: Bissell Brothers Substance and Reciprocal

Links
Laura Kline on the 2017 ballot
Jason Mintz on the 2018 ballot
My final ballot in 2016, 2017, and 2018
And, after much consideration and debate, my final ballot for 2019, which differs somewhat from what we talk about in this episode

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 48 - Debating the Womens' UROY with Phil Vondra and Rich Heffron

As always, I’m honored and excited to be included on the voting panel for Ultrarunning Magazine’s Ultrarunner of the Year. But as usual, this leads to days of internal debate and wondering what I’m doing wrong. This year I was lucky enough to be joined by my usual co-host, Phil Vondra, as well as Beastcoast ultra stud and former podcast guest Rich Heffron, so they could set me straight. We recorded this show last week, two days before ballots were due, and thus I was able to incorporate their sage perspectives into my final picks, which I’ve linked to below. In this show, Phil and I spent a quick fifteen minutes recapping some recent ultra results before Rich joined us to discuss our top 10 picks for UROY and our top 5 mens’ and womens’ Performances of the Year. For time purposes, we had to split this show into two episodes, so the men’s discussion will be presented separately.

Beer for this episode: Bissell Brothers Substance and Reciprocal

Links
Laura Kline on the 2017 ballot
Jason Mintz on the 2018 ballot
My final ballot in 2016, 2017, and 2018
And, after much consideration and debate, my final ballot for 2019, which differs somewhat from what we talk about in this episode

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 47 - Pushing Boundaries with Maggie Guterl

Last month, Maggie Guterl became the first woman to win Big’s Backyard Ultra, the de facto world championship of the Last Man Standing format. This month, her career reaches new heights with her appearance in the Pain Cave! The Legend, Phil Vondra, joins us for a quick recap of the World Mountain Running Championships and the North Face Endurance Challenge championship before Maggie calls in to talk about her epic run at Big’s, 24-hour racing, the allure of Barkley, her favorite seltzer, and more.

Beer: Other Half Green Down to the Socks and Small Nelson

Maggie’s IG
Rugged Running

Desert Island Picks: an atlas, Bonobos, Polar Lime Seltzer

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 46 - This Month in Ultrarunning with Phil Vondra

The Legend is back in the co-pilot’s seat for another installment of TMIU. We start off with a whirlwind of results from around the globe before delving deep into the two biggest events of recent weeks: Big’s Backyard and the 24 hour World Championships. Along the way, we tackle the burning questions, like: how to we fix the USATF championship process? Do people root for Camille, or just respect her? What is a Moscato? Plus, we give our picks for the podium at this weekend’s North Face Championships.

Beer for this episode: Trillium Brewing Dialed-In Double IPA

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 45 - Overcoming Adversity with Tom Kaplan

Whether hiking through the Alps, rock climbing in the Gunks, or hammering mountainous 100-mile races all over the US, you will not find a more amiable outdoor companion than Tom Kaplan—and you will not find an athlete more willing to push themselves past their breaking point. We welcomed the great TK into the Cave after his recent finish at the Bear 100 to talk about rock climbing, his mercurial Ironman career, how he was able to overcome DNFs in his first nine attempts at the 100-mile distance (and what kept him coming back again and again), how he (kind of) invented Strava, and more.

Beer: Southern Tier 8 Days a Week

TK’s IG

Desert Island Picks: Coors Light; The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksander Solzhenitsyn; Led Zeppelin III (though Tom later clarified he actually meant Zep IV, and said he wishes he’d picked The Last Waltz instead)

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 44 - This Month in Ultrarunning with Phil Vondra

Fresh off an age group podium performance at the Bear 100, the Legend returns to the Pain Cave for another installment of This Month in Ultrarunning. As it’s been almost two months since our last episode, we have a lot of ground to cover! We start with our thoughts on another wild UTMB week, including Courtney’s historic performance and what’s wrong with the US men. Then it’s our trademark blitz through everything happening in the trail and ultra world, including Zach Bitter’s amazing 100 mile WR, Leadville, Pikes Peak, the conclusion of the Grand Slam, the penultimate races in the Golden Trail Series, our obligatory Jim and Killian conversations, and much more.

We had all kinds of technical issues with this episode; unfortunately, the last 10 minutes or so are lost to the ether of my computer. Sorry about the problems there! You mostly missed Phil discussing his race at the Bear and brief recaps of the Cat’s Tail Trail Marathon and the Grindstone 100.

Beer for this episode: Frost Beer Works Plush and Lush, courtesy of Kirsten Kortz

Links
As discussed a number of times, the Billy Yang Podcast (including his UTMB recap and interviews with Justin Grunewald and Lucy Bartholomew)

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 43 - AT FKT Attempt Recap with Kristian Morgan

In June, we spoke with inov-8 athlete Kristian Morgan as he prepared for an audacious attempt on the FKT for the Appalachian Trail—an attempt that was aborted less than a week in. Kristian was kind enough to return to the Pain Cave to discuss what went wrong, how he’s dealing with the disappointment of having to let go of this goal, what he learned that he’ll take forward, running in the White Mountains, hurling, and more.

Links
Kristian’s pre-AT interview
Kristian’s website
The AT FKT

Intro music: "Fine Line" by the Bloodletters
Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale